Episode 4.14 audio
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Kathryn White: [00:00:00] Welcome to The Living to Thrive With Cancer Podcast. A podcast about the big and little issues that come with living with cancer. I'm Kathryn White, a stage four colon cancer. Thriver passionate about supporting others who have faced a cancer diagnosis and are looking to feel empowered in taking back control of their health and happiness.
My own walk with cancer helped me to learn more about myself and how to live with cancer, and it led me to become a holistic cancer coach so I could support others to move from survivor to thriving. So let's get started.
Hello, friends, and welcome to episode 4.14 of the Living to Thrive with Cancer Podcast. I'm Kathryn White, a certified holistic cancer coach, a published author, and the host of the Living to Thrive with Cancer Podcast. Before we dive into this episode and I introduce you to our amazing guest, I just wanted to remind you that if you're a new listener.
First of all, welcome to the podcast, and I wanted to share with you [00:01:00] that as a cancer survivor and thriver, I use my stories and my experience with stage four colon cancer to guide you through your walk with cancer. As a holistic cancer coach, I wanna help to support you through your health building lifestyle, managing stress, and helping you to navigate the day in and day out stuff that comes up when you have cancer.
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Alright. In today's episode, I am talking with Jocelyn Laidlaw. Welcome [00:02:00] Jocelyn.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Hi, Kathryn. It's fantastic to see you. It's been a while since we've been in the same room together, so it's nice to see you.
Kathryn White: It is, yeah. I, we actually, um, have been in the same room together. Twice at conferences with, uh, colorectal Cancer Canada.
I'm gonna get to that.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn White: Um, which is where we first met, but I want to share with the listeners more about who you are. So, Jocelyn is a journalist, broadcaster, speaker, the National Ambassador for Colorectal Cancer Canada, and a cancer survivor For three decades, Jocelyn was a trusted voice in the Canadian news landscape.
First, a reporter, producer and anchor in British Columbia. In 2003, Jocelyn moved to Calgary to anchor the CTV news at noon and five. She remained on the anchor desk for 21 years, guiding Southern Albertans through some of the biggest stories in the region's history. In September, 2022, Jocelyn was diagnosed with metastatic colorectal cancer.
She [00:03:00] underwent radiation and chemotherapy and continues her cancer journey with rigorous monitoring. Named the National Ambassador for Colorectal Cancer Canada in 2024. She has become an advocate for colorectal cancer awareness screening and early detection, sharing her journey publicly through social media and interviews across the country.
She uses her experience to encourage Canadians to be strong advocates for their own health. Woo, Jocelyn. Yeah, I love your bio so much. Sounds like a lot,
Jocelyn Laidlaw: like, lot
Kathryn White: Sounds like you're super amazing.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: No, it just, uh, it's just somebody really who's been through something and trying to make some good out of it, out of my situation.
Really, honestly. That's my, that's my reinvention. That's my transformation in the wake of my cancer experience. Oh, I love
Kathryn White: that. And I, I, I wanna backtrack for two seconds and I would love for you to build on that statement like, so we met at colorectal cancer candidates all about you women's [00:04:00] event two years ago we did, where you were the keynote speaker and I was blown away by your story and your honesty and just how you were just so.
Passionate about supporting other women and other people across Canada that are going through cancer. Um, and then we met up again last fall where we shared the stage together for a bit. And I just think that, you know, things don't happen by accident. I think that we were, I think we were meant to meet each other, so that absolutely.
I can learn from you and have you here today so that my listeners can also learn
Jocelyn Laidlaw: from you. Well, you've been an incredible source of inspiration for me, actually, Kathryn, and I don't think I've ever said that to you in person before, but I want you to know that, um, your journey is very compelling and very inspiring and what you've done with your post-cancer life, uh, your living with cancer life is really inspiring for everyone who's on this journey.
So thank you. [00:05:00]
Kathryn White: Thank you. Thank you for that. That's very kind. I appreciate that. Um, but we are here to talk about you. So I'm just would love for you to take the floor and just tell the listeners a little bit more about your health story and if you are comfortable, like how this has impacted your life.
They've heard a little bit about you, but Right.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: What else do they need to know? So, when you and I met in the fall, uh, two years ago, that the speech that I gave it all about you in Toronto, it was the first time I had ever spoken publicly in person about what happened to me. I had done a few videos, uh, to social media in, in part because as a news anchor in Southern Alberta.
You know, millions of people across Southern Alberta know who I am, and they understood when I went away that something was really wrong. So I had to address that publicly in some way. And I did that mostly on social media. Um, but when I spoke, uh, at all about you in Toronto for that first time, it was the first time I'd ever told my [00:06:00] story, shared my experience, which is why I, I sobbed through most of it.
I'm getting a little better at that, but sometimes I do just spontaneously cry about what happened to me. Uh, so if that happens, just ignore it. It's, it's hard to reign in. Yeah. Um, I think it's understandable, but it's just sometimes harder to control than others. So I have no idea what today will look like.
But in, so in the fall of 2022, in September of 2022, I was diagnosed with metastatic, uh, to be more specific than colorectal rectal cancer. Um. What's interesting about that timeline is that I, in reflection, looking back, I had actually been unwell for some time, though I didn't know that, I did not identify what was happening to me as sickness or being unwell.
I thought I was just going through the normal life changes and experiences that everybody goes through, where things aren't perfect with your body anymore. [00:07:00] Um, I was, I'm a very active person, very busy raising a child. Uh, I have my parents here living with me in Calgary as well, so we have very busy active lifestyle.
And of course I was in, in a very demanding career, which is, uh, live television news. So in the spring of 2022, I got covid the, during the Omicron wave. I had gone through the entire pandemic working from the office and never got covid. I was thrilled. Um, but then I eventually got it when a lot, a lot of people got it at the end of, uh, in the spring of 2022 when Omicron was the latest version.
So I was unwell for a little while. Um, and then I, I started to get over it and resumed my life. And one day, for some reason, and I can't even recall what it was, I felt a lump in my groin. So in the crook between your thigh and your torso, where your bikini line [00:08:00] sits or where your panty line is, and I felt a lump.
Like the size of a marble. And it was hard and it was well-defined, and I immediately recognized that that's where my lymph node was or should be in that zone. And I thought, wow, that's just, when I think back now about my assumptions were ridiculous, but they were reasonable given my level of understanding at the time.
I thought, wow, uh, covid is stuck in my, is stuck in my lymph nodes. Like, you know, your bo your lymph nodes are the super high way of your body. They respond to invasion. They, they will often, um, flare up, be sore, tender, and inflamed when you're fighting off something. So I just presumed it was that now never occurred to me.
Why is the lymph node in my groin behaving that way? I just thought, this is how it is. So I did go to the doctor eventually and I asked, uh, for him to look at this. Um, he, it was a very short exam, I'll be honest. And he said, oh, that's nothing. He [00:09:00] dismissed it. Um, this went on for. Weeks where I said, you know, like, is, is this something I need to be worried?
I wasn't worried, but it didn't seem normal to have one lymph node in one part of my groin hard and not going away. And I couldn't, and there was no explanation for it and no real attempt to explain it. We did a few tests, everything seemed okay. I was repeatedly told it's just a fatty deposit, which was ridiculous.
I, I know when I think back now, that's absurd. It was not a fatty deposit. I knew it wasn't deep down inside, but I wasn't really listening to my body, to my subconscious telling me, you need to be checking this out more. So we agreed to monitor it. Uh. And that was sort of the approach. [00:10:00] So Summer went on and I was doing all the normal activities and busy, and I, I eventually went back for another follow up and said, look, uh, can we just remove this lump?
And he said, yes, we could do that without even really knowing what it was, which in retrospect was also, uh, rather foolish. But, um, he agreed to put me on the list for minor surgery and I eventually got a call to say someone had canceled. So they pushed me early into September, but by now, like six, five to six months has gone by with a lymph node that isn't going away.
Uh, so I had it removed and I really honestly thought nothing of it. I went back to work that day. I anchored the news that night after this thing cut out groin. I know. And. And then three days later, I got a phone call on my cell phone at nine o'clock at night from the doctor who [00:11:00] removed it. It was a different doctor, and he said, I've been trying to reach you all day.
And I said, what's, oh, aren't you nice? Like at home service, you're calling to check up on me and see how I'm doing. Oh, I, I, this is how oblivious I was. He said, uh, actually no, I'm calling to tell you that you remember I sent that to pathology. I said, yeah. He said, well, it's full of cancer. And I just
that, yeah. When I think back to the person I was before that phone call and the person I am now are two completely different people, and that's why I get emotional about that moment because in that moment I had zero comprehension that my life was fundamentally changing forever. Right then right there.
Now, of course, I had the cancer before. I had the cancer that day. I had it the day before. I had it for months before. Who knows how long? Maybe a year, [00:12:00] maybe two years. But I didn't know. Yeah. And that, that moment that every cancer patient, every person who's ever had a cancer experience will remember that moment.
Yes.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Because there's before that moment, and there's after that moment, and they're never to be the same. You are never that person again for good and for bad. Mm-hmm. Uh, as we'll discover when we, when we discuss it, but I said, okay, what do we do? He said, well, I, you know, I need to see you right away. So what followed was a week or 10 days of frantic appointments with every oncologist because we, he said, this is not lymphoma.
We don't know where this is coming from. This is metastasized cancer. This is cancer that started someplace else and has spread to your lymphatic system. Which now, of course is so obvious, but at the time it wasn't. Um, and, and the region that it was in was [00:13:00] our, our starting point. Obviously it was nearby,
right?
So
Jocelyn Laidlaw: that opened it up to a gynecological cancer, colorectal cancer, anything in the pelvic region. And so I was poked and prodded in, in all manner for the next 10 days and underwent every scan possible. And we found a, a massive tumor, um, in the colorectal region, low down. Um, and it had at that point spread from the original site through all this adjoining tissues.
Um. You know, I won't use, won't use all the terminology that'll upset gross people out, but it had spread right in a bad way and then it spread to the lymph nodes, luckily only on the left side of my body because that's where the tumor was actually attached to the left side of the co. Oh, there goes the light.
Mm-hmm. Um, uh, but, but it had spread to, to the, to the lymph nodes. Um, and it [00:14:00] turned out, uh, that when I looked back at the reports from my original doctors, we were just looking for the source of this cancer. The radiologists had flagged a couple of lymph nodes way back when, but nobody ever told me. So it wasn't just the one lymph node that was a problem.
It was actually several two to be sure. And had I known that. It would've completely changed my behavior around ex finding out what was going on. Right,
right.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And so that's part of, and I'll just jump into this right away because it's, it's, it's the jumping off point for this. That was big lesson number one.
And the specifics of that lesson, or this, my doctor never handed me the written radiology reports from any of those initial tests in which we were trying to figure out where my cancer was coming. What, sorry, what was going on with that lymph node before we knew I had cancer. Right. He never read me the report.
He paraphrased it. The visit lasted less than 10 [00:15:00] minutes and it was like this. No, it's all, it's all okay. They don't, it's like a nothing, there's nothing coming up. No red flags here. That was the explanation. Had I asked for a copy of that report or said, show this to me on your laptop, please, or gone to it electronic records and asked for a copy of it, I would have learned.
Five months earlier mm-hmm. That there were two lymph nodes to be concerned about. And that changes everything, right? Because one lymph node might have a problem, but two. Now suddenly every doctor that saw me would immediately go, this could be cancer, this could be metastasizing cancer. Yeah, for sure.
That was, that's obviously, um, I look back at that moment and think, how could I not have been more informed? Which is silly. You're supposed to be living your life and hoping that the medical professionals you're seeing are catching these things for you. Yeah. But I look back now and realize that, um, I can never make [00:16:00] those mistakes again.
And that's part of my messaging to Canadians and that is, and women in particular, because we have a tendency to put ourselves at the bottom of the list. Yeah. And put everyone else at the top. Yeah, understandably. Uh, but we do that at our peril, right? Um, and if we wanna be there for others, we really have to be put ourselves first so that we can continue to be there.
So, listening to your body, acting more quickly on things to find out, and then really advocating for yourself, not taking the Oh, yeah, it's no big deal. Yeah. What, what does that really mean? What does that really mean? Are they saying this is, what is this? Well, we don't know. Well, let's find out what this is.
And so, I, I, obviously, I'm a completely different patient now than I was back then. Completely different. Yeah. Um, so I, I underwent, uh, uh, chemotherapy and radiation. Um, radiation was our primary [00:17:00] mode of attack, where my cancer was located. And the level to which it had metastasized to nearby tissues meant that removing it surgically was, if not an impossibility.
Uh, the absolute last resort. It remains the absolute last resort for me, uh, if I have a recurrence at the original site. And so, so you still have your primary tumor? I have. My primary tumor exists there as a blob of scar tissue. Ah, which just this week we did another MRI, so I'm having MRIs every three months.
Right. And they're looking at it and, um, that's how we're, we're monitoring on a variety of levels, but physical exam as well. Luckily, where it's located, it, it's accessible phy for a physical exam because some people would have to have a colonoscopy every time. Yeah, I don't have to do that. It's not that deep into the body.
So yeah, that's how we're monitoring and that we attacked it with radiation and chemotherapy. [00:18:00] And so far, knock on the wood, uh, I am no evidence of disease and no metastases beyond the lymphatic system in my groin. Amazing. Um. But I was stage, thank you. Thank you. But I was stage three, three A, right.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And so that's, I know you were stage four, which means metastases to other areas. And that's, you know, it's funny when you hear you have cancer, you're, you know, you're obviously traumatized, then you're like, what's the stage? And they really don't wanna stage you. Yeah. I don't know if you had this experience, but they really didn't wanna tell me what the stage was because they didn't want me focusing on that.
Oh, that's
Kathryn White: interesting.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Mm-hmm.
Kathryn White: Like I told you right away what my stage was, but I refused the prognosis. So same but different.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Interesting.
Kathryn White: Right?
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yeah. And so when you find out you're three A, you're like, well that's not one and it's not two, right? Boy, that's [00:19:00] not good. That's not good, but it's not four.
Yeah. Right. So there's this wor weird, uh, gratitude that develops for all the tiny little mini blessings you get along the way.
Kathryn White: It's so crazy. Like mine was like, I was so shocked when he said four. 'cause I was like, uh, you know, I could handle like one, I could handle two maybe. Yeah. And he said four. And I was like, uh,
Jocelyn Laidlaw: that's it.
Oh no, no. It's not good at all. I do not accept that. No, I do not accept that. Yeah. I'm just gonna adjust this. Make sure. There we go. Um, yeah, so we attacked it with chemo and radiation and, um, it was brutal. I'm not gonna lie. It was brutal. I'm grateful. I mean, here's the double-edged sword about, about cancer.
It's on every level that cancer touches you. There's something horrible and something good, and they're side by side. And cancer demands that you acknowledge both. You're gonna have to accept the sorrow, the pain, the grief, the fear, the whatever, all the bad. [00:20:00] And you're going to have to find and acknowledge the good 'cause they run parallel to each other, side by side.
And they're like mirroring each other the whole way. So I couldn't have surgery. That's terrible in a lot of ways because we couldn't cut out the cancer.
Kathryn White: Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: But I didn't have to have surgery.
Kathryn White: Yeah. Um, I love this thought so much. Like I have never, I've, I've thought it, but not in that way that they mirror each other.
They really do that horrible part and then, but there's like the weird mixed blessings or the bonuses or the good stuff. Yes, that is such, I love that so much. And for some
Jocelyn Laidlaw: people, me, it was very hard to acknowledge the bad and the good and embrace the good and say, okay, this is really bad 'cause this was really bad.
But wow, here's this little good thing. Gratitude. Here's another little good thing. [00:21:00] Gratitude. And then it just builds this pyramid of gratitude, which is built on millions of little moments that you really, if you're going to come out of this stronger. A better version of yourself. You must find the gratitude.
Oh
Kathryn White: my God, you're speaking my language. So good. It's true.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And people resist it, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it depends what kind of person you are. I had worked 30 plus years in a very aggressive, um, competitive, um, high level career where everything we dealt with every day for the vast majority of the time was terribly negative.
Yeah. War and poverty and murder and politics and all the things that are so weighty and heavy, and remind you how difficult the human experience is. So when this happened to [00:22:00] me, I was already incredibly grateful for all the good things in my life. Really, really, I swear. But I had some work to do to find gratitude on cancer.
And the mirror image of you're alive today, but you might not be tomorrow. Those just go hand in hand through the length of the journey, and they continue for me today, right? There will be something. I'm in the middle of Scanxiety. I had an MRI on Monday on Tuesday, and the results, by the way, oh, are right here on my phone.
The results are right here. I got a notification, didn't open it, right? So that's part of that hand in hand. How do I cope with the positives and the negatives? I'm in the middle of scanxiety, but I'm talking to you, having a good week, right? It's beautiful and sunny [00:23:00] outside. The snow's finally clear. So finding all this gratitude every day is.
Huge part of my daily experience.
Yeah.
Kathryn White: Sense. And it's worked. That makes sense. It can be, no, it makes total sense. This is, this is like totally how I have navigated and I know how my clients are navigating, like finding the gratitude and, and it can be that the snow is melting that spring is almost here.
You know, that results come to your phone that you get to, to talk with a friend. Like it doesn't have to be big gratitude, but I feel like the gratitude is heightened exponentially. When you've looked your mortality in the eye,
Jocelyn Laidlaw: you could not be more Right. It's funny, I often tell people about the in-between world that I live in now, right?
It's a bit of an in-between world. It's um, you know, my cancer is there. Um. Whether it's coming back, whether it's here now, it's just [00:24:00] something I'm going to live with forever, but at the same time, um, I need to live in today. And so embracing the positivity that exists today in my life, the good things, um, while acknowledging and finding room and acceptance.
And when I say acceptance, I don't mean giving up. Acceptance is there are things I cannot control. I didn't ask for cancer. I didn't do anything to get this cancer. I don't deserve this cancer. Nobody does, by the way. Mm-hmm. Um, I didn't do anything to bring it on me. Um, but it's here and I cannot truly control it.
And I don't know. I know there are lots of people out there who've had cancer who talk about their ability to control the outcome.
Hmm.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And I know this is controversial. I just don't happen to believe it. And I'll tell you why. It's not because I don't believe in being [00:25:00] positive. It's not because I don't believe in being strong.
I'm an incredibly strong person. The reason why I don't believe it is because when I was undergoing treatment, there were babies. Hmm. And children undergoing treatment for cancer. And they really crushed me because if they can't defeat it, if they don't win, is it because they didn't try hard enough? And of course the answer to that is absolutely not.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And so I never carried the burden that, that I'm responsible for surviving because cancer came to me without me asking for it or doing anything to deserve it. I am not in control of it. What I am in control of is how I respond to it. Yes, how I live my life with it and despite it, and how I assist others and how I continue on my journey of [00:26:00] personal growth.
That's what I'm in control of.
Kathryn White: Yes.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, there's we,
Kathryn White: sorry. Yeah, I was just gonna say, there's so much that you can control. You cannot control the diagnosis. That's right. But there's so much that you can control. Just before we hopped on the call, we were talking about kale and kale salads.
Like you can Dan Tea. We are having a lovely nutrition discussion. Right. But those are things you can control. That's right. And, and I, I, can I come back just for a second to, I wrote down the word language because you were talking about that idea of, um, that, that, you know, these children who are not even self-aware at this point, like, did, did they not try hard enough?
And this is where. I, I have a whole section in my book about language because it's really like when people say, oh, well she didn't try hard enough, or, you know, she lost her battle. I struggle with that. Yes. Because you and I are getting up every day doing our very best to eat healthy foods and move our bodies and love our families and do the right things.
Yeah. That, that we perceive to [00:27:00] be the right things and, and whatever the end game is, it is not for lack of trying to be a good human, educate other people, take care of ourselves, you know? That's
Jocelyn Laidlaw: right.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: You're exactly right. And I, I, the extension of that for me is understanding, which I did before as a journalist.
I'd met many, many people, uh, in fact, on an almost daily basis, I dealt with people. Who had experienced tremendous pain. I mean, for the most part, we put a lot of good stories on the news. People forget that. But for the most part, our stories were about difficulty. Challenge, right? Mm-hmm. We talked about triumph and, and, and victory and positivity and strength, but we dealt with a lot of challenge, whether it's the challenges our country's facing, our city, our province, or individuals, victims of crime.
So I dealt with a lot of people who had experienced grief and trauma, [00:28:00] sorrow, pain, fear, and I had had my own in childhood, but I didn't fully comprehend the depth until I was faced with. My own mortality and the possibility I wouldn't see my own son graduate from high school.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Um, and so that fundamentally sh should change you as a person.
It doesn't everybody. And I understand that it is fundamentally changing me and I say is, and changing because it's a process, right? And so you're right. Um, I can control all those things I do today. How many squares of dark chocolate I eat say my control? There's never too many, right? The fact that I don't drink alcohol at all and don't care about it is in my control.
Right? And will these things prevent me from getting cancer? Not only can I [00:29:00] not say that, I don't think you can say it, or even our doctors, nobody can say that. And so there's a bit of a surrender, and I, I, I struggle sometimes to express what I mean by this. In accepting what I can and cannot control.
Right. And so the instinct with cancer is, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna beat it. I'm gonna smack it down. And that was the first thing I said to my doctor is, let's get to work. What do we gotta do? Let's go. Let's go. Because that I'm a doer. Right? Ask oriented.
Kathryn White: Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Right. We're gonna do, this is a job and I'm gonna do it, and we're gonna kill it, and I'm gonna fix it and I'm gonna crush it.
And all I could do is what I could do and accept that the outcome is going to be what it's going to be. Because along the way, others who I met, diagnosed have lost their battles. They have died from cancer, unquote. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And I say quote unquote, because they did nothing differently. No,
Kathryn White: they didn't.
Everybody's [00:30:00] story is different. It, it, there's so many mitigating factors in the background around That's right. It's not genetic. And I think we should throw this on the table, that the majority of cancers are not genetic, like less than. That's right.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And are mine is not,
Kathryn White: mine is not. Right. So it, it's, you know, everybody where, where you grew up, the water you drank, how you were raised, did you have trauma or not?
Like no. How much food did you put in your body that was full of sugar and, and there's no blame and no shame in this. These are just the mitigating factors and how a body is going to develop or not develop disease and then how you respond to treatment and then how you emotionally and mentally accept or don't accept a situation and move forward from there.
Right. It's such, and I think that's what makes it so complex is it's that it's so individual.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: It is a completely unique and individual journey, and which is why I share only what I've experienced. And I, I, when I say for example, that there are people out there [00:31:00] who believe that a positive attitude will cure your cancer, I, I respect them.
I respect their faith in that. It's just not my experience. And it's because I've seen completely innocent people. Mm-hmm. Unable to, um, change the outcome. And so for me, that's powerful in helping me to understand that I don't deserve, nobody deserves this. Nobody, nobody deserves this.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Um, right. And, you know, whether you ate sugar or smoked, and I never, I never smoked or drank or did any of those things.
But even people who did, nobody deserves no. The grief and trauma that cancer will bring to you and to the people that you love.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Um, and that's because I, I struggle sometimes to explain the profound way in which cancer has touched every aspect of [00:32:00] my life. Relationships, finances, stability, um, my own mental health.
Mm-hmm. My physical. Mm-hmm. I mean, every aspect of my life, my parenting relationship with my child,
right?
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yes. So it, it's so, um, broad. The impact that I try never to judge people who think or wanna believe that certain experience or certain practices will help them. Whatever gets you through your day as, as a cancer patient and then as a survivor is what works for you and what you should do.
I
Kathryn White: think we call that faith.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Whatever that looks like. Right. Whatever that looks like. Yeah. Right. And so, but having said that, um, I'm really, really devoted to getting Canadians to practice health advocacy at self-advocacy and activism. Yes. [00:33:00] I'm an an activist patient, right? My doctors now, the ones that are left with me, some, some chose other paths.
God bless them, uh, um, the ones that are still with me, they know me. They know where I, where I'm coming from, how I'm handling my monitoring, my living with cancer, and what I expect from them in return. Right. And what I'm bringing to the table. Mm-hmm. And so I'm asking, you have to ask. Yes, you must.
Kathryn White: Yeah, you must.
I told my doctor, we don't like coming to the cancer clinic. Nobody does. Don't wanna go. Nope. Don't wanna go. And he said, well, well what do you wanna see happen? Can we do this over the phone? Unless there's something we really, really need to come in for? And he's like, absolutely. Like pre Covid, we stopped going to the cancer clinic 'cause my husband was just struggling so much.
And you know, it's very difficult to go to the cancer clinic. It's, it's a very difficult emotional place to be. And [00:34:00] my oncologist was like, absolutely, we will do everything by phone unless I need you to come in. Yeah. And so, you know that when we advocated for ourselves, that was a whole layer of stress that we were able to take off of our shoulders.
The phone calls are still a little bit like. Okay, we're waiting for the phone device. Yes, yes. But it just, it's a different, we're still in our own environment, in our own space, and that works for us. That doesn't work for everybody.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yeah, you're right. It's interesting, uh, Calgary just opened a brand new, um, multi-billion dollar cancer center, the Arthur JE Child Cancer Center.
It's the largest and most advanced in the country now. It's Oh, wow. Truly incredible. An incredible, incredible facility. However, prior, so I, I had all my treatment at the Tom Baker, which was the old one, the 1965 Relic or whatever, where we were in the basement walls, literally in the basement of the hospital.
Um, and it, it smelled funny and it looked funny, and it wasn't a great place, but the, of course, the people were amazing. [00:35:00] Um, but when the new cancer center opened, I, I continued to see a psychosocial oncologist. Uh, so this is a, a psychologist specifically. Um, I. Practicing specific care for cancer patients.
And then further to that, my specific, um, psychosocial oncology specialist only treats GI cancers, only talks to patients with GI cancer. Wow. So, for example, she's not talking about breast cancer with her patients, she's talking to patients who have GI cancer. So when you're talking about, um, ostomy bags and yeah, the surgeries and all these various things, she has a complete and deep understanding of where you're coming from.
So what my point is, this brand new cancer center gets built and now my psychologist is there. Not in the beautiful, tiny little heritage neighborhood where I used to go and park right outside her office and Oh, walk in the front door and it was right there. It's now in a giant, massive, massive [00:36:00] hospital full of cancer patients where I park paid a lot of money to park and I go and I go upstairs and through the elevators and through the radiation chemo and all these areas and to find the psychosocial oncology department and your, to your point, I found that triggering.
Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: I mean, I wasn't going back to the Tom Baker where I had the radiation, but I was in the cancer center
mm-hmm.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: With all the other cancer patients. Mm-hmm. And I felt symbolically as though I had left that place. Yeah. At least for now. Uh, and so that was a challenge. I said to her, oh, our next appointment's in the new building.
She said, yep, it. I was kind of hoping never to have to go there again. Right. Truly, truly, never to have to go there. Uh, it's okay. I go and of course it's a beautiful space and, and I'm grateful for it, but it, it's strange how tiny things can trigger. Right? Yeah. And, and I don't consider myself a [00:37:00] highly triggerable person, um, but I was like, gee, I really don't wanna go there.
I go, we do it. Um, but it's an imp it's an important part of my ongoing recovery is, uh, professional counseling to help me. So when I have a setback, which you know you have occasionally, right? Yeah. A frightening, frightening scan result or something in your body changes and you're convinced, oh my god, it's back.
Yes. Oh my God, it's back. Have you
Kathryn White: had those? Oh yes. Yeah. A lot. Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And then you beat yourself up for immediately thinking it's back. Right? Yeah.
Kathryn White: It, it is a whole cycle of, um, you know, recognizing what is happening and learning how to manage that feeling and, and getting yourself out of panic because it is a kind of panic that is difficult to explain.
I'm sure many of the listeners will understand that yes, this anxiety, right? That, or even pre anxiety of like every [00:38:00] little ache and pain. I think for probably the first four years of my life was like, well, that's gotta be cancer. That's got, it's coming back.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Here we go. Yeah.
Kathryn White: Mm-hmm. Here we go. Mm-hmm. There
Jocelyn Laidlaw: we
Kathryn White: go.
And most times not.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Right.
Kathryn White: I just had a CT scan on Monday and it's the, uh, I did a live, which I never do, but it was the calmest I've ever gone into a scan because I'm this far out, but also because I have learned how to navigate the feelings and That's right. Learn how to, to, to use all the tools and strategies that I have to get to that place where it's like, okay, this is, and, and reframing it as these scans and tests are part of my medical wellness plan.
That's right. They are eliminating. That's right. The idea that there is something there and affirming for me that I am healthy, like that is my belief.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Y you, you know what you are so. Right. And that, that comes with. A good amount of reflection, support, professional help, um, and work. You have to do the work.
So I wanna show you a [00:39:00] page. I started this journal when I got cancer. This is my first book. I have about seven of them now. Oh, do you? And on the very first page, there's a lot of my personal information, I won't hold it up, but it says one outcome right there. I wrote one outcome. Yeah, that was, and then of course there's phone numbers.
And this quote, you cannot control life. All you can control is how you respond to life. Yes. That's what I wrote. The very next day after I got that phone call that it was cancer. And then this is one day, and I don't know the date 'cause I didn't write the date on here. I was going in for a result from an MRI.
And this was my first big res, big MRI. After my treatment had concluded and after I had recovered from the. Stage five radiation burns. Mm mm-hmm. It's a mess. It's a mess. So don't judge me. It looks a little bit like, um, a manifesto of a crazy person, but this is what I wrote [00:40:00] on. I don't know if you can see that.
Yeah. It says N-E-D-N-E-D-E-D all over the page. NEDI believe.
Kathryn White: Yes. Oh, I love that. Jocelyn.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: While I was waiting for the doctor to read the results and tell me this was compulsive, really a kind of deep effort to manifest an outcome, any d no evidence of disease.
Yeah. That's
Jocelyn Laidlaw: what I needed to hear from him.
And every once in a while I pull that up and remind myself that when I'm going into those, really, the, the outcome is not in my control.
No.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: But the belief and the ability to manage, I. All the emotions that are flooding, you know? Yes. Could this be it? Is it coming back? No, I'm all okay. What if I'm not? It's this huge game your brain plays with you.
Yeah. It's, I just remind myself of that
Kathryn White: and it's so valuable that you're saying [00:41:00] that because I, I think sometimes people think they're a little bit crazy and or that they're living in a silo. Like, does anybody else feel this way? Like, hands up if you feel like you're like completely out of control and you have all the scary thoughts, right.
So to hear it. From other people to say like, no, this is normal. And, and a, a compulsive writing of NED is, that's your mantra. Like that was your way of working through that. And so everyone has to find their own thing. That's right. When I go through my scans, I just, as soon as I'm in the room, I'm in my head, my mantra.
I am happy, I'm healthy and I say it the whole time. Breathe in. I am happy. Breathe out. I am healthy. Like just because that for me, I'm telling my body. 'cause our bodies believe what we tell, I believe our bodies hear everything we tell them. Yes. And they will choose to believe it or not. And so I wanna be feeding my body no evidence of disease.
I am happy, I am healthy. You know this, this is gonna be a great scan. This
Jocelyn Laidlaw: is
Kathryn White: gonna be a great scan. It's
Jocelyn Laidlaw: gonna be a great,
Kathryn White: and you [00:42:00] know,
Jocelyn Laidlaw: the other thing is. You are happy and you are healthy.
Yes.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: In that moment. Yes. And so I am learning now to really take living in the moment down to the most microscopic level, right?
So if, if I'm having a bad day, maybe, um, I take my dog for a walk and I remind myself, okay, there's these 10 horrible things, or this stuff is stressing me out or whatever. But right now, in this exact moment, not any other moment exists. This exact moment. I'm walking my adorable sweet dog. It's, I'm bundled up.
It's crisp and cold and beautiful, and I'm okay. Yeah, I am okay right now.
Yes.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And this, and further to that, in the worst of my, uh, treatment time and while recovering, I had to [00:43:00] repeatedly tell myself. I'm not dying today because cancer for me was, I'm dying. Am I dying? Like and what, however long that process was going to be.
A year, two months. Two days. Two weeks. We don't know. Right. Am I dying? And so my response to that is, I'm not dying today. I'm not dying right now. Yeah. That's how I respond to the threat, the constant threat that cancer now poses to my future. Mm-hmm. And, and then I remind myself, most other people in my world can say the same thing.
They're not dying today either. Yeah. Even if they don't have cancer. We're all in the same boat there, right? Yeah. And so it brings me back to a place where I'm not that sort of one outlier. Oh. I'm walking around with a big sea over my [00:44:00] head. Right. The label, the label, the weight, the burden. Yeah. And so reminding myself to live in the present by constantly reminding myself today I'm fine.
Yes, I'm fine.
Kathryn White: I am here pink. I am here. Yes, I'm here. That's like my walk-on song. Exactly. And you know what,
Jocelyn Laidlaw: most other people, that's all they can say too. Yeah. Because tomorrow is not a promise, it's not a given. And so once you begin to live in that present, um, you carry a it, it lightens the load. Is what it does for me.
For me, yes.
Kathryn White: Yeah. And being present is like really, you know, there's this, the phrase like, well that's, they call it a gift, you know? It's, it's the present. Mm-hmm. But it truly is like, it, it heightens, it's almost like colors are brighter and the day is sunnier and, and you know, things, for me, things that used to get me, like [00:45:00] put me over the edge, I just like, whatever, like honestly, yeah.
I can't control that. And I spend a lot of time being angry and stressed out as a teacher and, and just like, yeah. Why? It, it's out of my control and I have so many more beautiful things that I can be doing in my life, life And focusing on that. There's not much that bugs me anymore.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: That is a what A huge gift.
That is it, right? It's, it's been work. And if cancer, it is work. But cancer may have been the catalyst for you to do that work.
Kathryn White: Oh, absolutely. Am I right? Changed my life for the better. And, and sometimes that can make people feel a little cringey, but the people don't love that. I know. I
Jocelyn Laidlaw: know.
Kathryn White: Yeah. It, it's, but something has to give.
Right. And, and for some people it's, it's other versions of a disease or a moment in life or whatever. In our case, if I may speak for you in Yes moment, like you said, of like on a, on a dime in, in like three small words, life changed completely [00:46:00] from Yeah. You know, pre to now with, and, and so it's about it.
It's the, I so love that you, you shared with me earlier that you started at the last chapter of my book because it, I did. That is the living to Thrive. That is where the concept of, of being able to have these conversations because you learn how to get comfortable. You learn how to accept, you learn how to move through.
Without that heightened stress and anxiety and fear all of the time. Some of the time. Yes.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Some of the time. Some of the time. And then learning to manage it when it is happening. Right? Yeah. Taking a moment to acknowledge the fear and then, like, for example, not opening the app that has my MRI results. Yes.
I'm just not gonna do that today. That's because that's where I'm at. Um, I'll probably do
Kathryn White: it tomorrow really well. Okay. This is very interesting to me because I don't get my stuff to my phone. I wait for the doctor's phone call or [00:47:00] a visit. Um, so it's interesting to me that you have that at your fingertips and you are I do, are resolved to not look at it today.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Today, yeah. And I have on ones where I had a little bit of concern, which is usually based in nothingness. Mm-hmm. Right. I'm, I'm just feeling vulnerable on, on a scan result, I'll sometimes just let it sit there and wait for him to tell me. When I go in the office. Hmm. However, I'll be honest with you, there's a part of me that says,
mm-hmm
Jocelyn Laidlaw: You got this.
Yes. You have the ability to cope with whatever this is gonna say in here. And it might say, I see something.
Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Radiologists might say, I see something there. So we better act on that. And that would be devastating. I'm not gonna lie. It will be devastating. Devastating, yes, of course. Yes. But this is my new reality and part of [00:48:00] being strong enough to open it and read it myself is that I have to take con, I have to take charge, not control, but charge of how I consume what's happening to me.
Mm-hmm. I don't need it to be spoonfed now. Now I, I will say for anybody out there who has not experienced reading, um. Scan results, test results. You do have to be careful, right? Yes. Very much I've read, I've read results, not fully understood what they said and freaked out. Freaked out. So I do have a bit of a process now I know in an MRI, what I'm looking for, but for those who are wondering how, how could I read a report and really not panic about it?
And the answer to that is, well, first of all, read all your reports. 'cause you go back and you read the ones that were nothing. And then you read the ones that, where there was something, and you can tell the difference now. Mm-hmm. And then it sounds a little dangerous, but I actually put them into AI and ask AI to interpret my report for me.[00:49:00]
Kathryn White: Oh, that's interesting.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And I then take terminology that I may not understand and I, I look it up and, and find out what the definition of that is. Right. Right. And then I put together all that information and say, yep, okay. I understand what this report is trying to say. I highlight. Anything that I don't understand and then I take it to my doctor and say, okay, this is how I read this.
Is this right? He and he'll say, you're right. And I'll say, but I don't understand this. And he'll say, oh yeah, so this is what this means. Yeah, don't worry about it, but this is what it means. This is an education for me because I no longer, I don't wanna say I no longer trust, but I'm no longer willing to surrender, um, my wellness solely to the hands of someone else.
Kathryn White: Well, when you have had an experience where things are brushed off, right. My, we call him Dr. Guy. My Dr. [00:50:00] Guy knew I had spots on my liver and he called them a red herring to our face. He's like, we're not talking about cancer. That's just a red herring surprise. Stage four colon cancer mets to the liver. So when you've had that experience, yes.
There is sort of this need to, uh, I want to understand and I'm going to question, and I'm going to ask for, and, and it's a fine line. Like I don't read my reports because I, I just wanna enjoy that time that I have and allow the doctor to explain to me. Yeah. That's my personal take on it. I have, and that whatever works into researches everything.
Yeah. And that's her take on it. That's what she needs to do. Like it's, that brings it all back to, it's such an individual process and without judgment. Like they, everybody has to do it in their own way. Totally. But yes, when the seeds of doubt have been planted, I can, yep. I can
Jocelyn Laidlaw: empathize and stick. And that's why, and that's why, uh, last fall when I spoke to a conference of oncologists, I reminded [00:51:00] them, I.
Of their duty to allow their patients to lead and not lead because they're doctors, because patients aren't doctors lead because it's their life. And so. You need to listen to your patient. You need to educate your patient. Don't dose them with information if you, I mean, so they were dosing me at the beginning of my diagnosis.
They were like, well, we think it, there might be this or might this, little bits and bits and bits. And I'm like, Hey, just gimme the hard goods, the whole picture. I need the whole picture.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And so they did. Uh, but it wasn't their preference. Their preference was, we don't want you to implode, so we're going to give you bits.
And then over the course of two or three weeks, you're gonna find out your total picture and you'll be more prepared to deal with it once you've gotten used to the first, the part is that you have cancer. Okay, we're gonna go to the next part. Yeah. So I, I just, I just caution doctors against doing that because patients need to be empowered to [00:52:00] lead their journey.
I knew something wasn't, I never thought I had cancer, but if we go back to that first visit, I was there to say, what is this?
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And just dismissed. That will never happen to me again. Right. That will never happen to me again. I will never allow that to happen to me again.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: I will walk out of a room with somebody who dismisses me and say, thanks, you're not the right person for me.
Mm-hmm. And I'll go find the person who will listen.
Mm-hmm. And
Jocelyn Laidlaw: that's really some of the work that I'm doing with colorectal cancer. Canada is number one to put a face on the disease. Nobody really wants to talk about bottoms and bums and,
Kathryn White: Nope.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Poop and colons. It's not sexy.
Kathryn White: Colons are not sexy. Rectums are not.
It's
Jocelyn Laidlaw: not. It's not. Nope. But the truth is, 25,000 Canadians will be diagnosed this year. Nearly 10,000 will die [00:53:00] of it. And the numbers are surging among people under the age of 45. Right? Yes. Yeah. Disturbingly. Disturbingly, because we don't know why. Nobody really knows why people in their thirties who have no genetic or family history, although that is a large number of the young patients mm-hmm.
People in their thirties are getting this. Mm-hmm. And by the time they get it and it's found, they're usually stage three or four.
Yeah. With
Jocelyn Laidlaw: a much more difficult journey to a positive outcome. And that's because nobody expects somebody of 30 or 35 or 25 to get colorectal cancer. Yeah. So that's, that's a big reason why I am doing this.
Is because I want people to know that before I had cancer, cancer was women in pink tutu with pink t-shirts and pink hats at some park with big, having a big party. It was principals shaving their heads for somebody in a school or men [00:54:00] riding in bike shorts down a rural Alberta road raising money for some cancer bike ride.
Or it was kids with a, um, you know, a cloth over their head or a hat or a to that was cancer. Uh, for me now cancer is anyone, anywhere, anytime,
right? It
Jocelyn Laidlaw: isn't an the other, it isn't someone over there. It's right here. It's right there. And it could be anyone. And so once you come to that realization, people who don't have cancer, if they can come to some understanding.
They will take it seriously and I'm hoping be an active participant in their own wellness and health and collaborate with their medical professionals to monitor their health very closely. Yeah. This is not to make people afraid, it's just [00:55:00] had I known in the spring of 2022 that that lymph node could be cancer?
Yeah. I would've said, oh yeah, no, we're doing, this is happening right now. What's this? Panic. Panic. Like, let's act.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: I just never dreamt that it would be me again, non-smoker, non-drinker, healthy liver, eat a lot of kale, do a lot of good things for myself. I thought I was doing all the right things Right.
As I'm sure you did too.
Kathryn White: Yeah. And you were, it's just, then again, it's, it's like one of those anomalies, I mean, there's, there's a lot of stuff out there and we could do a whole other talk about that of like what do they think are the reasons for, but, but at the end of the day. What I, when, when my clients say to me, I, I don't understand why, why did I get this?
It's like, but do you really need to know why?
Jocelyn Laidlaw: This is a very good point you're making, right? It's
Kathryn White: more have, but what are you going
Jocelyn Laidlaw: to do with this than why did I get it right? So I have asked my, so my initial was why me? Right? And why me is a [00:56:00] very common response. My sisters came to visit, uh, not long after I had, I got cancer.
And I remember I was sitting upstairs in my master bathroom and they were sitting on the bathtub and I was at my dressing table, and I could tell their faces were racked with grief, and I could tell, they wanted to know why me, why, why you? And I said, that is a pointless question, and I'll tell you why did I think it could never be me?
Of course I did. So did everyone else who ever got cancer? Mm-hmm. The baby, the 6-year-old I saw at the Tom Baker Cancer Center who had already lost a leg and was there for radiation. That the question, why me becomes so pointless? The question is, why not me? Cancer is part of the human experience. Mm-hmm.
Sadly, unfortunately, and I hope one day it isn't. Mm-hmm. But right now it [00:57:00] is. And nobody is immune to the possibility. So I stopped asking myself that question. It's irrelevant, it doesn't change anything. Mm-hmm. And it focuses on the wrong things.
Kathryn White: Yes. Because everything post. Three words is now what am I doing?
Where do I go from
Kathryn White: here? That's right. What is your plan? What is my plan? How am I navigating my family? Am I staying at my job or not? I quit my job personally. 'cause I was like, I can't do this anymore. Am I changing how I'm eating, how I'm, am I changing how I'm thinking? Everything is not about the why, it's about the what am I gonna do with this?
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yes, you're exactly right. I'm no longer a news anchor. Um, that was 30 plus years of my life. Th almost 35 years of my life. And so when you, um, that was my identity, right? That was a huge part of who I am. And so to get cancer, to fight for my life, to, to be facing my own [00:58:00] mortality, this massive existential threat, um, and then also to, to lose that identity, uh, was very difficult.
Mm-hmm. Um, however, I realize now looking back. This is, this is exactly where I'm meant to be. Right. And I don't just say that because that makes me feel better about what happened to me. I say that because this is my journey and I'm okay with where I'm at right now. I'm okay with that. I certainly hope my MRI comes back clean.
Kathryn White: It will. Of course I do. I'm gonna believe that for you. Of course I do.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Of course. It's right. Yes. And I, and I do experience a lot of grief on a regular basis that our, our challenge in defeating cancer as, as the human race is, seems to be so slow. [00:59:00] Every Terry Fox Day, every day when my son runs the Terry Fox run, I remind myself that it's 40 plus years and we have not achieved Terry's dream.
Kathryn White: I ran in the very first Terry Fox run when really I was like. Eight or nine. I think we were in Nova Scotia, so I would've been like nine or 10. And then this is just a total aside, fun facts. My husband and I spent our first date at the Terry Fox Monument in Thunder Bay. 'cause we really met when we were up there and didn't symbolically have any connection to it.
And then when my son was going to university, we went up to Thunder Bay to look at Lakehead for him. And I was in stage four. I was September of 2015 when I was back in chemotherapy, like round seven or eight. And we had flown up and we went to the Terry Fox Monument. Totally different meaning for me that of course it just, you know, it, it's all of that To say that, you know, 10-year-old me had [01:00:00] no idea that 43-year-old me and now 53-year-old me would.
Have such a, a change in my life and, and that the, the longevity of this disease is in its existence. Is what it is.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yeah. It's, and, and that I, that I find to be harder even than my own personal grief and pain fear over my cancer is that, you know, when will we be able to figure this out? Yeah. When, when will we finally defeat this?
And I used to believe it was one thing. It was going to be the one great discovery, a key of some kind one thing. I sadly no longer believe that I have a deeper understanding of all the various types of cancers and all the various things that trigger them. And, and that it, it, that, it probably isn't just one thing, but it is difficult.
It, that is one of the most difficult things is that, um, [01:01:00] all this. Effort. All the effort of so many people. Mm-hmm. And all the money and all the lives. And we still can't, um, really conquer it. And, and that's difficult. Yeah. That's as difficult as facing my own mortality.
Kathryn White: Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yeah.
Kathryn White: So I know that to bring it back around, you are the National Ambassador for Colorectal Cancer Canada.
Yes. And at the time that this podcast is airing, it is Colorectal Colon Cancer Awareness Month.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Colon Cancer Awareness month.
Kathryn White: And so as the ambassador, like what, what would be your message for people that are listening, whether they have cancer, colon cancer, rectal cancer, any cancer?
Jocelyn Laidlaw: No cancer. Okay. So I wanna talk to people who don't have cancer and I wanna remind them, uh, that.
Colorectal cancer has been dubbed the silent killer for good reason. Uh, it's very hard to detect if you don't pay attention to the symptoms, and frankly, many people [01:02:00] dismiss the symptoms as other things IBS, uh, lactose intolerance, hemorrhoids, all kinds of, you can, you can come up with all kinds of explanations for some of the symptoms when they involve your toileting habits.
So, I wanna get real about that for a second. I want Canadians to remember if there is a change in your toileting habits that lingers, that is unexplained. And please don't dismiss it. Just ask yourself legitimately, is this a, a, a significant change? Even mild changes, if they linger, they mark a, a, a differentiation.
I was like this before. Now it's like this, you need to see a doctor. It doesn't mean you have cancer. But you need to double check that. So the age right now for a colonoscopy in Canada is 50 years old. I'd love personally love to see it lowered to 45, but let's at least get everybody who qualifies or it, it is appropriate for a recommended for in, for a colonoscopy.
So just for Canadians who [01:03:00] don't have cancer, see your doctor, please get a physical exam. Mm-hmm. I've spoken to a lot of people in the last few years who have told me they see their doctor regularly, but they never examine them physically. They don't do a digital rectal exam. They need to be looking
happen.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: They need to be looking in your bottom. Okay, I know it's gross and awful and it's an invasion, but we need to go there. Um, you need to discuss your toileting habits with your doctor. If you have chronic diarrhea, constipation, blood in your stool, um, compulsive going sudden, urgency of going, if you can't control your bowels, you need to immediately discuss those things with your doctor.
Mm-hmm. I, I had a few minor symptoms, which I dismissed, had I addre had I said to my doctor, the one who dismissed my lymph node, you know, I've also got this other thing going on. It's, it's really minor. He might have gone, Hmm. That's all in the same area.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And we might have acted [01:04:00] differently. So I just, I tell people that, to remind them.
That your doctor's not gonna call you at home and say, Hey, Johnny, you haven't been in for your physical. Yeah. Hey Barb, you haven't had done a fit test, which is a fecal test where you look for blood in the stool. They just can't do that. Any, those days are over if they ever existed. You need to go to your doctor, make an appointment for a physical appoint every year, get routine screening for all the cancers you qualify to get routinely screened for paps and mammograms and for the men, PSAs, all those things, because I'll tell you, some of them will be caught.
Mm-hmm. You will catch some of them, and that's better than none of them. Right. So at 50 you also qua qualify for a fit test. Um, it's not a hundred percent, but it'll look for blood in the stool. And if there is blood in the stool, then you get the next stage of, of checking out to find out what's going on.
So that's for people who don't have cancer, I, I want them. To make, I consider [01:05:00] March colorectal cancer awareness month, a reminder month for you to do your bodily head to toe touch base. Right. I get my winter tires put on, I get my summer tires put on. I get an oil change. I get my, my, my car tended to. I want people to do this head to toe for themselves.
Do not be afraid of what you might find out. Be afraid of what you never find out until it's too late. That, that concerns me a lot more. Yeah. And then for those who have this disease, I wanna remind them that you can survive it. I'm surviving it. You are surviving it.
Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Um, many, many, many, many, many do even stage four.
Yes. Highly survivable. When treated aggressively and consistently.
Kathryn White: Yes.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And so I, I want people to know that you can do this. You can do this, you will be changed forever. [01:06:00] That may not be a bad thing. There will be good and there will be bad along the way, but you can do it. And, and an organization, frankly, like Colorectal Cancer Canada is a wealth of resources for anybody who thinks they may have the disease or know somebody who does or has been diagnosed.
Yeah. They, they offer all kinds of supports and education and awareness. And so please reach out to colorectal cancer canada.com and, uh, please take advantage of those resources and continue. I just continue to spread the message that, um, this is, and I, and I would say this, colorectal cancer is actually preventable.
Very few cancers are totally preventable, but if you get a colonoscopy and they find polyps and they remove them, they are removing pre-cancer.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: They're removing polyps that never become cancer. Imagine, imagine if you expanded that to all the other kinds of [01:07:00] cancers. Well, we're gonna go into, we take a little something, it'll never become cancer.
So really it is one of the most hopeful, um, screening methods that we have in that you can catch it before it actually becomes cancer.
Yeah.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: And, and there's nothing more hopeful than that. So for me, uh, it, it's important and I want Canadians to remember it, it's just about taking responsibility for this vessel we've been given.
Right?
Kathryn White: Yes. Yes. And, and not taking it for granted. Okay. Feeding healthy foods, drinking water, don't drink, reduce how much you drink. That's a personal choice. Don't smoke. We all know there's one cancer. They know exactly where it comes from. Yep. Lung cancer, highly related to smoking. Yep. This, we, we have these beautiful bodies.
They need to be moved. They need to be taken care of. The routine maintenance, daily maintenance,
Jocelyn Laidlaw: and, and we live in a country. Where we can do this. Yes. Right.
Kathryn White: We have so many opportunities,
Jocelyn Laidlaw: [01:08:00] despite all the difficulties, and I know, uh, these are very difficult times for people and healthcare across the country is burdened.
Um, I know we have a shortage of oncologists in Alberta. Pains me greatly. Um, we've had cancer patients die without ever seeing an oncologist. That should never happen in this country.
Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: At the same time, we have the ability here to prevent much of what we're talking about and to be active participants in our wellbeing.
We have a universal healthcare system that will help us to accomplish that. If you're an active patient, if you're, if you are a, a good self-advocate and you speak up and get involved, and so I, I remind myself every day, uh, how lucky I am to be a Canadian.
Kathryn White: Yes. Yeah. I have American clients and it is an entirely different, um, system.
Yeah. And we are fortunate that we can access our doctors and, and yeah. Maybe as we want to, [01:09:00] but, you know, we can get access to doctors.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: So, yeah. I did actually, uh, I did travel to the US as part of my cancer journey, um, in part to see a doctor in the United States who had treated, I have a very specific type of tumor in a very specific location.
Mm-hmm. Uh, and, uh, I saw a doctor there who had treated women with this exact type of cancer. And so I felt good knowing that I have, um, done my due diligence in making sure that what our plan here was the right plan. Um, and now I have options, uh, should, should there be a recurrence to, to act. In any way that I might need to, to do so.
But yeah, I, I just want people to know that your wellbeing is in your own hands for, to a great extent, and you can have a real impact on the quality of, of your health and the caliber of your health. And, and so I would encourage everybody in March to dress in a little bit of blue, have a little bit of [01:10:00] blue today for, uh, colorectal Cancer Canada, and of course to, uh, share the message, um, yeah.
And be screened. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Kathryn White: And another plug for, for the CCC, the push for your tush run is coming up. Yes. In the summer at, I think there are 12 or 13 locations across Canada for the run. Fantastic
Jocelyn Laidlaw: locations. Yeah. Yes.
Kathryn White: Yep. I will be the one here in London near You're gonna do
Jocelyn Laidlaw: London? Yeah, I should come out there.
And would you happen to know where the date for London? I can't recall. I haven't looked, I haven't memorized all the dates. July 5th. What's the date of London? It's June 21st in London. Oh. June 21st. You should up there and do that. I could stay with you. We could do that together. Yes. And Calgary is July 5th now.
July 5th is the first weekend of Stampede. Oh. And, and yeah, we, we, we knew what we were doing. Well, we booked it for that date. And let me tell you, it's going to be super fun. It's in Fish Creek Park, which is the spectacular Prairie Park. Really? You're in nature and it's [01:11:00] gorgeous. There's free parking and uh, we walk and, and it's fantastic.
You can walk or run. I would encourage everybody to come to the, be able to be a big stampede party going on in the city at the same time. I should come to
Kathryn White: Calgary for that one. You do. You should. Yes. I have a
Jocelyn Laidlaw: spare bedroom for you. All right. Cowgirl. We might have, might need to put that on the calendar, so might need to put that on the cal.
Yeah, so it, it's, it's gonna be, that's gonna be fantastic and those walks and runs will happen across the country. I know there's a big one happening in Summerland, BC this year, which is a revival of a, of a memorial event that was happening for somebody who, who passed from colorectal cancer. So I think this is gonna be a big year for push for your tush.
Kathryn White: Yeah. Fantastic. So that's our little plug for, that's our little plug raising money for Colorectal Cancer Canada and the work that they do to support people like Jocelyn and myself and thousands of other Canadians across the country with their support network and, and information. So, yeah. Oh, Jocelyn, we could talk all day [01:12:00] like I have can we?
That I wanted to talk to you about that. We didn't even, I'm sorry that we didn't get to No, it's because I was, I think you'll have to come back 'cause I know you're doing some other very interesting things related to your story. So I think we'll have to have you back next year on season I five and, and do another episode of the Yahoo.
I would love to
Jocelyn Laidlaw: interview. Yeah, I would love to. Yeah. I mean, I'm, uh, there's other things going on and I'm, I'm expanding some of my knowledge base in terms of, uh, precision oncology work and advocating for that as well. So it's important stuff. Um, yeah, and I'm just, I'm thrilled to have the opportunity to share the message, so
Kathryn White: thank
Jocelyn Laidlaw: you so much
Kathryn White: to have you come back and explain that.
'cause I think people need to know. So, but in the meantime, if people wanted to follow you Oh yeah. Where can they find you?
Jocelyn Laidlaw: You're gonna, uh, do I remember my Instagram handle?
Kathryn White: I have all of your links. Tell them the general place where they can find I
Jocelyn Laidlaw: your links in the show notes. I'm on Instagram, [01:13:00] uh, the Jocelyn Laidlaw, which sound I, I hate that, but I had to do it when I, uh, when I had to change my Instagram handle.
Um, yeah, and you know, um, and I'm on, I'm still on x, maybe not for long. I dunno. I have obviously really mixed feelings about X, but I'm still there. Uh, LinkedIn and Facebook of course. So, yeah, and Colorectal Cancer Canada as well. You can follow them and uh, you sometimes will dovetail with some of my content.
So
Kathryn White: Beautiful. And I will put the link to Colorectal Cancer Canada in the show notes as well. Thank you. So everything Jocelyn and Colorectal Cancer Canada will be in the show notes. Thank you. So just as we are wrapping up, I have one more question for you. Yeah. I ask this to everyone. The question is, what does living to Thrive mean to you?
Hmm.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: I thought about this 'cause I knew you were gonna ask me, so I did, I did put a little thought into it. You know, it actually means living and in my case, with cancer. So that's, that [01:14:00] takes a couple of avenues. One is accepting sorrow, pain, grief, fear as part of the human experience. And in fact, even finding a way to see positivity in that.
My experience with sorrow, pain, grief, fear, has made me a more empathetic and compassionate person. I believe a better person, a kinder person, a more loving person, and someone who truly, uh, truly can. Empathize with the grief, pain, and sorrow of others. So that is a positive. It also, uh, living to thrive is allowing myself to receive the good in life.
Allowing myself to receive the good in life, to really feel it and to enjoy it. I'm actually so enjoying what we're doing here today, like this moment with you, really enjoying it and then embracing opportunities. Right? Um, like this opportunity and the opportunity to share my personal story with [01:15:00] others, I'm embracing opportunities and in turn that allows me to reinvent myself in the wake of what's happened to me.
Hmm. And so
Jocelyn Laidlaw: for me, that's what it is to thrive and to live to thrive. That's beautiful.
Kathryn White: Yeah. Thank
Jocelyn Laidlaw: you. It's a, it's a work in progress.
Kathryn White: Oh my gosh. Work in progress. It's an unwritten book. It's like Right. If you, so if when you go backwards in the book and you get to chapter one, I will get to the front.
Yeah. It's called the Club. You never wanted to join it,
Jocelyn Laidlaw: isn't it just
Kathryn White: It is, yeah. And so it, it's this lifelong now process of healing and, and living to thrive and living with and just loving life every day. Yes.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Which is, of course, as we've already said many times, anchored in gratitude.
Yes.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Anchored in gratitude.
Yes. And
Jocelyn Laidlaw: so, yeah. And some days I never think of my cancer. It never crosses my mind. Those days are rare. I will [01:16:00] admit they get,
Kathryn White: uh, further more frequent that you get more days in between as you get further out.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yeah. It does get, yeah, because as, as all cancer patients know that that five year is the one you just can't wait to get to the five year mark.
Funny how you don't wanna get older, but you really wanna get to the five year mark. It's a whole other conversation. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I
Kathryn White: look forward to more of those days as well. Absolutely. It has just been such a joy and a pleasure to have you here today to, to truly have an authentic, really like unscripted conversation, but just totally to be able to talk openly as two women at the prime of our lives with sons that we have been concerned about and husbands and lives and jobs and all of these things.
To be able to just share with open hearts with yeah. People that are listening and your story is very compelling and the lessons that you've learned about, you know, getting your records [01:17:00] and advocating for yourself and, and living in gratitude, I think will ring very, um, true and deeply with the people that are listening to this podcast.
So thank you very much for being here today, Jocelyn, and for sharing your story. I
Jocelyn Laidlaw: can't thank you enough, Kathryn. I feel so lucky to have found you two years ago and, um. I'm here for you anytime you need me. And, uh, yeah, I appreciate you tremendously. And, uh, by the way, can I hold up your book? Oh, you can, can you hold up your book?
I wanna hold up this book. There it is. Yeah, there it is. And I started at the back. What I love actually about the structure of the book is you actually can jump in almost anywhere. Yeah. Rebuild your foundation, right? Like immediately I'm finding all the, and I'm the only reason. Can I just explain to you the only reason why I didn't Absolutely.
Can, didn't. At the beginning I was feeling a little vulnerable and I I didn't wanna read about your pain, right. I wanted to read about your [01:18:00] rising. Oh. And so I started at the back end 'cause I know you rise. And so I have the benefit o obviously of already knowing that. And so I knew I would start there and, and when I'm feeling strong on another day, I will read the front.
But because I. I can identify with so much of what you've been through. I have to pick a day when I'm feeling ready. Absolutely right. Yeah,
Kathryn White: absolutely. And it, it was written intentionally in small segments. Some of the chapters are a little long, but they're written in small pieces so that you can literally just read a paragraph and put it down.
Yeah. It, it's not meant to be an overwhelming
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yeah. I love it. And it, it's structured in such a, such a beautiful way. So I hope, uh, everybody will go out and get it if they haven't already because it's really, it's, it's really great. Thank
you.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Thank you.
Kathryn White: I appreciate that. And if you read it, if you could leave a review, that would be great too, because that helps other people.
Where do I, where do people leave the review? On Amazon. I'm selling [01:19:00] on Amazon. Okay. On Amazon. Yep. And so you can just leave a review on Amazon and um, that way people have the opportunity to see the book. 'cause the way that it works like an algorithm, it goes to the top. Yes.
Jocelyn Laidlaw: Yeah. I'm gonna go review that.
I'm gonna review that. Thank you. Thank you my friend. I appreciate you so much.
Kathryn White: Oh, I appreciate you again, love that you are here. And, um, I'm just, we've, I've already asked for the review of the book, but also if anyone's listening to this podcast and really enjoyed it, if they could leave a five star review of the podcast, that would be very helpful.
Also, Jocelyn and I are on a mission to change the face of cancer in Canada and to bring awareness to colorectal cancer and that you can live with cancer and you can thrive with cancer. And when other people support us in sharing that message. I think good things will happen. Good things will happen.
And thank you to everybody who's been listening today. Yes, thank you listeners. This is a really great, lengthy but [01:20:00] great podcast. I'm sorry it's so long. No, it's fantastic. Alright, we're gonna say goodbye, Jocelyn. Just bye my friend. Well, not Goodbye. And, um, again, deepest thanks for being here today. And to the listeners, thank you for being here and for tuning into this episode.
Um, and we look, I look forward to having you back on the next episode of Living to Thrive with Cancer Podcast. Have a great day everyone. Thank you so much for being here today. I hope you have a beautiful rest of your day and may you live your life to your fullest, follow your heart and thrive in all
you do.
